74 jazz bass (pristine condition) in Australia

[Frits]

http://www.blackdot.com.au/product-deta ... 2&pid=1189

[bobjones2260]

WOW! Amazing Find! Nice Pic's too.

Question, does the date code on the pot's make it a 77?

[paulo]

BEAUTIFUL!!

[Matt R.]

WOW! Amazing Find! Nice Pic's too.

Question, does the date code on the pot's make it a 77?

By that year, they were 3-bolt, had a bullet truss rod, and had the thumbrest on the bass side.

[pjmuck]

Gorgeous.

It begs the question, how are you gonna get it out of the country with that rosewood neck.

[crescenze]

WOW! Amazing Find! Nice Pic's too.

Question, does the date code on the pot's make it a 77?

By that year, they were 3-bolt, had a bullet truss rod, and had the thumbrest on the bass side.

Right Matt. Bob, the code is correct for 74. See below.

137 - Manufacturer Code CTS
74 - Year
29 - 29th week of 74

[tomdbass]

WOW! Amazing Find! Nice Pic's too.

Question, does the date code on the pot's make it a 77?

By that year, they were 3-bolt, had a bullet truss rod, and had the thumbrest on the bass side.

Yup. You are correct Matt. I have a 73 that is a 4 bolt, truss rod adjuster is at the heel of the neck and the thumb rest is on the G side. I believe 74 was the first year they did those changes that you mentioned.

[gravesbass]

WOW! Amazing Find! Nice Pic's too.

Question, does the date code on the pot's make it a 77?

By that year, they were 3-bolt, had a bullet truss rod, and had the thumbrest on the bass side.

Yup. You are correct Matt. I have a 73 that is a 4 bolt, truss rod adjuster is at the heel of the neck and the thumb rest is on the G side. I believe 74 was the first year they did those changes that you mentioned.

Looks legit here. I also had a 74 (early) and identical to this but blonde body. All checks out legit. Too much $$ tho.

[Matt R.]

WOW! Amazing Find! Nice Pic's too.

Question, does the date code on the pot's make it a 77?

By that year, they were 3-bolt, had a bullet truss rod, and had the thumbrest on the bass side.

Yup. You are correct Matt. I have a 73 that is a 4 bolt, truss rod adjuster is at the heel of the neck and the thumb rest is on the G side. I believe 74 was the first year they did those changes that you mentioned.

I think 75 was officially, but if I recall, there was a sort of ambiguous transition period in '74/75.

[fivebass52]

AUS to USD converts to 4536.72.... way too much. Also, it's my understanding that if (as in the case of this bass) you can prove manufacture date, shipping shouldn't be a problem. I believe the CITES regs refers to basses that fall after a certain build date. Still, it would be best to know Exactly how the regs works for older basses before buying...

[zecacosta]

AUS to USD converts to 4536.72.... way too much. Also, it's my understanding that if (as in the case of this bass) you can prove manufacture date, shipping shouldn't be a problem. I believe the CITES regs refers to basses that fall after a certain build date. Still, it would be best to know Exactly how the regs works for older basses before buying...

The 'cut date' is 1992 so everything in and before that with rosewood or bubinga should be fine, however... there is a whole talking about 'instrument passport' and other requirements that may be different from country to country (CITES to CITES chapters, actually - and how Custom may interpret them) that make things pretty confusing - and risky. It looks like @ US of A if you have your gear confiscated, there is no room for arguing or appealing- even if you just caring it across the border to play it there...

I'm still waiting to hear from CITES Canada. Until then, no deal

[Jeroen]

It looks like @ US of A if you have your gear confiscated, there is no room for arguing or appealing- even if you just caring it across the border to play it there...

Wow, really? And then what? It's off to the wood chipper?

[pjmuck]

AUS to USD converts to 4536.72.... way too much. Also, it's my understanding that if (as in the case of this bass) you can prove manufacture date, shipping shouldn't be a problem. I believe the CITES regs refers to basses that fall after a certain build date. Still, it would be best to know Exactly how the regs works for older basses before buying...

The 'cut date' is 1992 so everything in and before that with rosewood or bubinga should be fine, however... there is a whole talking about 'instrument passport' and other requirements that may be different from country to country (CITES to CITES chapters, actually - and how Custom may interpret them) that make things pretty confusing - and risky. It looks like @ US of A if you have your gear confiscated, there is no room for arguing or appealing- even if you just caring it across the border to play it there...

I'm still waiting to hear from CITES Canada. Until then, no deal

Not quite. According to the Fish and Wildlife Permit, there are different levels of application that need to be filed (and paid for) depending on what you're doing. Here are the details as they specifically relate to musical instruments:

12. For Dalbergia nigra (commonly known as Brazilian rosewood or Bahia rosewood), complete one of the following certification statements:
a. Vintage guitar (musical instrument) exporter. If you are requesting a single-use permit to export a vintage guitar(s), provide an inventory of your pre-Convention stock of guitars made using Dalbergia nigra.
If you are requesting to establish a master file for the export of vintage guitars, you will not need to provide an inventory of all guitars that you intend to export. The master file is typically established for up to 3 years, so it would not be possible to identify guitars that are not currently in your possession. Therefore, if we establish a master file, the master file will not establish a limit on the number that can be exported during the life of the master file. However, you will be restricted to exporting only guitars that were manufactured from pre-Convention Dalbergia nigra, harvested prior to June 11, 1992. If this is acceptable, please sign and date the following certification statement:
I certify that all the guitars to be exported under my master file will have been manufactured from pre- Convention Dalbergia nigra wood, harvested prior to June 11, 1992, and will be documented by the guitars' serial numbers or other identification. If requested by the Service, I am willing to report on the number of guitars and their identification numbers that may be exported under my master file when requesting additional partially completed CITES documents under my master file.
Applicant's signature: _______________________________________ Date: ___________
b. Guitar (musical instrument) manufacturer/exporter/lumber exporter. Provide a catalog or
inventory of your pre-Convention stock of Dalbergia nigra wood and/or guitars.
I certify that all the guitars/guitar pieces/lumber to be re-exported, and identified in my catalog or inventory, are made from my pre-Convention supply of Dalbergia nigra, harvested prior to June 11, 1992. I further certify that I will not attempt to export more wood or applying for multiple shipments, I request to export up to _______ guitars/pieces of wood in the next 3 years.
Applicant's signature: _______________________________________ Date: ___________

The fees are as follows:

One time export: $100
Personal use export (In other words, if you're a touring musician bringing a rosewood instrument into the country): $50. But what if you're on a multiple country tour Do you have to pay $50 every time you enter another country?
Master file: $200. A permit for 3 years that covers any number of rosewood instruments you intend to sell in the time period.

It's also worth noting that it can take months to get a permit.

[fivebass52]

After reading this, it occurs to me that CITES officials have clearly Not taken into consideration touring musicians, or private sellers. As long as you can provide serial number documents, you should be able to take, or sell, instruments accross borders... But, of course, that's too easy for govt agencies.... Although this all makes me think of how this could open up a whole new area of serial number forgeries, and fraud...

[zecacosta]

I'm still waiting to hear from CITES Canada. Until then, no deal [/quote]

Not quite. According to the Fish and Wildlife Permit, there are different levels of application that need to be filed (and paid for) depending on what you're doing.

Thanks for chipping in PJ! That makes the life of our US brothers easier but we are still missing clarification from CITES North of the border...

[pjmuck]

Yes, it would seem that you'd have to consult the CITES agency? of whatever country you live in, as it differs from country to country.

From my end here in the US, the application for a Master list seems to be the most economical way to do rosewood trade over a 3 year period IF you do a fair amount if it, but most of us buy and sell instruments as they come up and there's no way of knowing what we'll be interested in buying/selling or how may we're going to sell in 3 years to offset the $200 fee!

The whole thing feels like a money grab, IMO, regardless of the protection of rosewoods. They need to amend it, unless I'm missing some detail I'm not seeing in the application. I've attached the full application here if anyone wants to peruse it.

https://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-32.pdf

[zecacosta]

Finally heard back from CITES Canada:

"
Permits are required for Dalbergia and Guibourtia products (rosewood, African blackwood, kingwood, palisanders, bubinga…to name a few of the common names). However for most of the Dalbergias there is only a CITES export document required from the exporting country. There are normally no additional CITES import permits required. For Brazilian rosewood, which has been listed in CITES since 1992, there control is stricter and both the import and export permits are required.

Permits are required even when the wood or wood products are older than the CITES listing. This is due to the fact that the CITES office needs to validate the claims that the wood is “old enough”.
"

Now just one detail: the forms @ the Canadian CITES site do not work... so I'm asking them to try to get it fixed.