overdrive - does a unit like this exist?

[Rodent]

I've been playing live quite a bit lately, and most of the time I'm required to have an uber low amp volume due to the room acoustics (I do get a killer FOH mix with nice lows billowing thru the beefy subs )

Since I can't crank my amp, I believe it's time to consider utilizing an effect in my signal chain

Here's what I'm looking for:

* overdrive that can be dialed in between only subtly there when I really emphasize a note to full in your face frontal attack
* ability to pass a clean signal out and blend in the overdrive to taste
* no loss of low end when in the loop
* ability to adjust the low frequency limit of the over driven signal (to keep the bottom tight)
* ability to adjust the high frequency limit of the over driven signal (to keep the ear piercing noise out of the horns)

I'd be interested in either analog or digital processing at the moment, and it seems like this would need to be a rack unit since the quality level of a stomp box with these features would seem questionable

any recommendations on where I should begin my search would be appreciated

all the best,

R

[lefty68]

Hi Rod,

Take a look at EBS

there are perhaps 2 good solutions for you :

the valve drive : http://www.bass.se/2007/valvedrive.htm

or the Microbass : http://www.bass.se/2007/microbass.htm

i keep on searching for rackable solution

Regards

André

[andrew]

Hey Rod,
I don't know of a rackmount distortion unit with a blend-able clean/dirty ratio control (though that'd be great!). I think the AGRO meets a lot of your criteria otherwise though, or perhaps the SWR interstellar overdrive with the expression pedal? I've also heard that Mesa Boogie makes or used to make a couple different rackmount pre's that have good distortion channels for bass. I can't speak for the tone drain or true bypass side of it, but the Pearce BC-1 (also no longer made) is what billy Sheehan uses to get dirt on his tone, as it has two channels and you can blend them. The Ampeg BSP preamp also has blendable overdrive but I've never tried it either. You might want to try the Tech 21 PSA preamp for a digital option. I'm not certain how the eq in these pre's would play with the eq on your amp though. some good, some bad I'd guess.

If you want to try any of my dirt boxes/pre's come on up with your rig and you're welcome to give any of them a workout to see if they do what you like. I've got quite a few options for you to try.

In pedal options I like the Rusty Box and the Tone Hammer, as pedal's that are more a pre with dirt in them. I've never tried them, but you may want to check out the Xotic BB Plus and AC Plus pedals on your bass too. Two channels on each would allow you to set one side for mild dirt and the other for full blown overdrive. I know Emerald City in Seattle has a couple of the Xotic pedals in stock right now too.

It's a big pedal, but I think the Budda Phatbass is a killer box for adding warm tubey grit to a "clean" tone. And I heard that Budda are re-releasing the Phatbass in a smaller pedal form soon.
Another tube pedal option is the Mesa V-Twin pedal. It has a blues and solo channels to get two levels of drive. I think it sounds great, though it is made for guitar and doesn't have the greatest low end response. The Duncan Twin Tube is another tube pedal made for guitar that I really like for bass. It have low end for days so it being a guitar pedal doesn't hamper it's use for bass at all. My complaint with it though it it has a two band eq that is for both channels, and I think the eq sounds better at two different places for each channel. But that's just me, you may find it just right for both depending on how you want to dial it in.

If you have any questions please let me know.

[Rodent]

thanks for the tips - I definitely have some tools to start researching

FWIW I almost bought a Pearce years ago when they were still being made. I was actually in discussion with their engineering staff about the potential to have the effects loop modded so that I could carry a clean signal thru uneffected and then blend the effects later in the chain. About the time I was ready to write the check they suddenly stopped answering their phone ... and I was informed that they had closed shop I ended up with an ADA B01 (I believe that was the model number for their bass pre) which I had a love/hate relationship with. At that time I was moving away from my Mesa Boogie rig to something more 'programmable' so I could switch tone settings on the fly depending on the particular technique

all the best,

R

[andrew]

What's your main bass/amp/cab signal chain you've been playing that you want to add distortion to Rod?

[Rodent]

I'm regularly a stock '65 Fender into a DI that's split to the house and whatever the house has for a reference amp (last two places has a Fender 210 combo that got LOUD and sounded killer with the P) ... but I've also been working a pair of 5-string customs back into my rotation when the gig calls for it. one of these is a 35" scale neck-thru made primarily of highly figured Myrtle wood with flamed Maple neck stringers and an Ebony fretboard, and it's loaded with Bart soapbars and a NTMB 18v pre. The other is a bolt-on 5 with a Maple/Birdseye neck and quilt Maple topped Alder body - for the time being this has Bart soapbars and a Demeter pre, but it's going to get reloaded with Nordy Big Singles and a Nordy 2-band pre.

If I was playing thru my personal stage rig, there would be a Raven Labs MBD-1 mixer/buffer equalizing the volumes for up to three basses running into an Eden WT-800 with full signal running to an Avatar 210 Kappa Pro and Avatar 112B sub. I find the 12" sub works significantly better at getting me what I need to hear without filling the room with a wall of low frequency mud


I don't see adding grit to the P, I'm actually getting ready to string it with flats. it's the other two basses I'm looking to add the drive to as more of a textural effect - I don't want it to sound like "o, listen, he's playing with distortion ... how quaint" ... what I'd instead prefer it to be is more along the lines of it fitting in such that it is never noticed in and of itself. because of this, I really need to keep a clean uneffected signal in the chain and then mix the drive into the mids such that it doesn't increase the overall volume. On Sat night the group did a couple Metallica/Dokken inspired originals in an otherwise hard rock styled set, and while the neck-thru 5 excelled overall there were times I definitely would have liked to drive the sound larger so it would grind even harder

did I miss anything?

all the best,

R

[andrew]

From what you've described I'd try a Budda Phatbass first. It's quite mild in it's grit unless you crank it, and it just does good things to your tone overall. Though it is not blend-able, and does not have a huge low end. You may be able to get the AGRO to work if set low, but it isn't a subtle distortion to my ears. The Tone Hammer might be a good candidate too, it does the mild grit thing well and you can dial in lots of extra low end from the onboard eq, though the ToneHammer is not very transparent. It'll give you another tone, not your same tone with a bit of dirt added. Which you might like anyway.

[Basshappi]

You might want to ask some of the guys over on the Talkbass effects form.
Grygrx has his own website dedicated to dirtboxes that include really good evaluations and samples.
Go Here: http://bassfuzz.com/

Of course another option would be to get a blend pedal, which would enable you to use it with other pedals.

Cheers!

[Lefty from Philly]

Check out the Sans Amp VT Bass Character Pedal

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/tech- ... r-08/34859
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansa ... eries.html

I keep this with me at all times if I need some "growl".. I've also used it with my upright to get a "Flip Top" sound... Very well made... From Clean tube to mild growl to full blown distortion...

[andrew]

Check out the Sans Amp VT Bass Character Pedal

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/tech- ... r-08/34859
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansa ... eries.html

I keep this with me at all times if I need some "growl".. I've also used it with my upright to get a "Flip Top" sound... Very well made... From Clean tube to mild growl to full blown distortion...

Did you find balancing the eq on the VT pedal against your amp's eq easy or hard to do? I couldn't get the VT to play nice with my amp at all, it always seemed to be too much gain.

[Lefty from Philly]

Hey man... EXCELLENT point... ALL of the Sans Amp stuff runs "hot"... It takes some tweaking... It was suggested to me at one point that it was better to run it through my "effects loop" for better control... Haven't tried that yet...

Check out the Sans Amp VT Bass Character Pedal

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/tech- ... r-08/34859
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansa ... eries.html

I keep this with me at all times if I need some "growl".. I've also used it with my upright to get a "Flip Top" sound... Very well made... From Clean tube to mild growl to full blown distortion...

Did you find balancing the eq on the VT pedal against your amp's eq easy or hard to do? I couldn't get the VT to play nice with my amp at all, it always seemed to be too much gain.

[Basshappi]

I've been meaning to try out the VT.
For those who have, are there trim pots inside? If so it would be possible to 'fine tune' it to work better with your amp.

[Rodent]

that T21 VT looks really interesting ... and leaves me wondering just how good the effects loop is on my MBD-1 buffer/pre. I saw a few reviews on TalkBass noting that it is a little 'bright' on the highs when run direct.

Anyone have these issues when running direct to a live console vs. direct to a studio console? (more of a situational question vs. the equipment type question)

all the best,

R

[Rodent]

thanks for the tip on the Tech21 LfP

I scored one of these a few moments ago it's getting shipped out today and should be here by the middle of next week (hopefully in time for my session this weekend)

all the best,

R

[andrew]

thanks for the tip on the Tech21 LfP

I scored one of these a few moments ago it's getting shipped out today and should be here by the middle of next week (hopefully in time for my session this weekend)

all the best,

R

What is the LfP Rod?

[Rodent]

LfP - Lefty from Philly

I forgot the comma ... should have read "thanks for the tip on the Tech21, LfP"

what can I say, my flight from the East Coast landed after midnight last night and my brain isn't all here today

R

[andrew]

Aah, gotcha.

I should've clued into that. Let us know what you think of the pedal once you've had some time with it.