"1965" Fender Precision bass

[andrew]

Does anyone else think there are a few things off about this bass?

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-RARE-1965-F ... dZViewItem

[Rodent]

here's a couple things I see that don't match mine:

* pickguard looks to be aftermarket or from another bass
* there are no bridge vocer holes
* I need to double check my tuners, but those don't look right to me
* definitely not the original case (should be black with orange interior)

The paint looks like it could be right, and that this is a bleached Alder body

I don't remember off-hand when Fender used slab fretboards, but this appears to be one. Did they make the switch to a veneer fretboard in June '65?

I'd like to see a close-up of the headstock face, the heel of the neck, the neck pocket, the control cavity, and the electronics as a minimum to go along with this listing

I'm no expert by any means, so don't take my thoughts here as any kind of authority

if it's real, $4K BIN seems very reasonable considering what insane prices you see elsewhere

all the best,

R

[Rodent]

you might find this useful

http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fender2.html#pbass

all the best,

R

[Rodent]

here's what I expect the tuners to look like





compare these above to the keys in the lefty bass auction



you be the judge

p.s. these images are taken from various web sources, and are not mine

all the best,

R

[pjmuck]

Rodent, by "vocer holes" are you referring to bridge cover holes?

- It's my understanding that most slab board necks were phased out by '63, though with lefties who knows. It's possible Fender had a slab board neck sitting around waiting assembly by '65, so perhaps the neck is even older than '65.

-I definitely would want to see a closeup of the headstock, pots, electronics, etc. Though it's hard to tell from the pix, there should at least be a patent number under the Fender logo. Also, that logo looks weird, IMO. Looks raised to me, as if someone glued a Fender chrome logo from a case on it. At any rate, the logo should be gold with a black outline.

-The tuners appear to be pre-1963, as the main plates are drilled and not punched, and thus should also be reverse tuners. AFAIK, all after-market Fender copies (like Schaller's reverse tuners) are punched, so these appear to be original. Again, perhaps Fender had them sitting around waiting for assmebly. I'd be curious to see a tuner removed to see if the headstock's been scooped out for relief holes, as Fender started doing so around '64 to get the tuners to lie flush with the headstock.

-I can't tell from the picture, but the bridge should have grooved spiral saddles.

Lousy sunburst finish, IMO. Very distinct banding of colors. I much prefer a smoother blend.

[Rodent]

[humility_mode=on]

*gulp* ummm .... yes, I meant 'cover' holes



[/humility_mode]

re: tuners - something appears odd with the gears ... they appear awfully pointy in the lefty image. I guess this is what is throwing me off with these

R

[pjmuck]

"*gulp* ummm .... yes, I meant 'cover' holes"

No problem. I thought you were using some new technical lingo that I wasn't privy too.

"re: tuners - something appears odd with the gears ... they appear awfully pointy in the lefty image. I guess this is what is throwing me off with these"

Good eye, I wasn't even noticing that.

I've referenced some of my Fender books, and in some photos of earlier basses it appears that Fender did use various "pointy" gears around this time (and prior), though there doesn't appear to be any "official" timeline. Also, if you look carefully you'll see the tuner plates have a very slight additional point along the sides at the lower tapered portion of the plate just above the lowest plate screws. This is also consistent with the pre-64 plates I mentioned earlier, and is definitely not reproduced in any after-market copies. I'm pretty sure these are pre-'64 tuners.

FYI, I contacted the seller and asked a few dozen questions. She got back to me and told me that she plans on posting more pix tomorrow (unless she sells it before then). She did say that the pickguard, pots and cap were replaced with Dimarzios, but that she has the original pickguard, pots and cap as well. She didn't answer, however, many other questions I had, i.e fret/neck condition, truss rod, any re-routes, etc., other than to say that the bass was in "good" condition.
Hopefully the additional pix will answer some questions.

[andrew]

Does that sunburst look right? To me it had more of a 70's look to it, one I didn't think you'd find in '65.

[Rodent]

it would also be interesting to note the body thickness.

IIRC, my '65 has a 1-5/8" thick body, with the glue joint laying just below the lowest dip point on the upper side (ugh, how do I describe this location?) where your ribs would contact the body when playing. the joint is then well hidden in the edge bands of the burst finish, giving the appearance of a 1-piece body when sold new. with time the Nitro finish, wood, and glue have shrunk at slightly different rates and I can see this glue line as a reflection when lighting conditions are just right. I believe this is the common joint location for righty basses, but I'm uncertain of they flipped it to the lower side for lefty basses (i.e. reversed the body cut pattern on a standard body blank vs. utilizing a specific mirrored body blank for lefty instruments)

if somebody here purchases this bass, please do report back on where the glue joint is ... please, o please, o please

all the best,

R

[Rodent]

lighting sure makes a difference when trying to capture the colors accurately. these image colors are close, but not quite right, to real life



all the best,

R

[AustinLeftyBass]

FYI, I messaged the seller regarding the pickguard and the (apparant lack of) bridge cover holes. They said the 'guard is a replacement and the original is included. No mention of the holes.

I could be wrong but if you look at the holes in the pickguard it doesn't look to me like there are holes in the body for the finger rest.

[gravesbass]

Andrew and gang, a good friend of mine that's been a collector for years believes its not sold because it's not all original. He says the finish appears to be a refinish. There are not enough pics to justify a sale (ie. neck, frets, headstock, actual date on neck, bridge ashtray holes, etc... etc). Pull the neck and show the buyer what he/she is getting. If it were authentic from 1965 and only at a 4k BIN, wouldn't it be sold already?

[bbl]

Very interesting.

Is the seller the original owner, or selling on their behalf? Suzanneholdsthemirror? If that's the seller pictured in the ID profile, she looks like she might not have been born by 1965. However, 100% feedback rating. Hmmm.

All of the pics used flash. In my experience, that's how sunburst looks with flash - the red is so saturated (I may be using the wrong term - it's early ), it doesn't appear to be smooth transition between the other two colors.

No answer regarding the lack of cover holes? Hmmmm.

[AustinLeftyBass]

No answer regarding the lack of cover holes? Hmmmm.

That's what I said!

[andrew]

I'm thinking non-Fender body, pseudo age correct. Likely from a MIJ 70's Fender clone. Maybe? Possibly?

[pjmuck]

Well the plot thickens. More observations, though some more pix would definitely take some of the guess work out of this!

The dot markers appear to be faux pearl to me and not clay dots. (The only reason I'm saying this is because there appears to be a slight flash reflection on some of them). If that's true, then the neck would have to be no earlier than a '64. The Fender logo also appears to be a block transition logo and not the earlier spaghetti style (again, not easy to see, but serifs look closer to transition to me). So that would also confirm that it's no earlier than a '64 neck. This however, does seem to contradict the time-line most historians give for the phasing out of the slab board necks in '63, unless they had the neck sitting around for a year or 2 and applied the newer logo later (as well as the earlier tuners). But would Fender insert pearl markers 1-2 years after the manufacture of the neck??? I think not.

[pjmuck]

Sold for an offered price of $3400. Anybody here get it?