Sumboddy 'splain this tuh me...

[Addison]

Ok...

I popped in over at the EB/MM forums the other day to ask a simple question...

Why no lefty Stingray HH (dual humbucker) or HS (single coil/humbucker) models?

Well, some people went and dug up some old post by Sterling Ball with some really vague details about how tooling is so expensive and blah-dee-blah... which is fine. He even implied that he LOSES money making lefties, which, to me, is an absolute joke... that's for another thread.

Anyway... my question... do you need to completely retool your CNC machine to simply route a second pickup hole?

Once you're tooled up to run regular SR5 H bodies, can that same tooling NOT be used for SR5 HH bodies?

I'm thinking it's simply a mtter of EB/MM not wanting to deal with it, so they don't do it... I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with special tooling and all this other fancy manufacturing speak that they like to use.

BUT... I might be wrong, and that's fine... I'm wrong a lot... but, if anyone (Rod! ) can help clarify this for me a bit better, that would be sweet.

Thanks!

[andrew]

My understanding is the biggest issue isn't tooling for the pickup, it's that EB gets their preamp's circuit boards/control layout made to fit the bass, and in order to do both a 2 band pre and a preamp with a pickup blend for lefties would require them to have a batch of these preamps made specific, and it is cost prohibitive.

I've always wondered if you could bend the ear of someone at EB to get them to make HH lefty basses if you agreed to live with a reverse layout/reverse turning knobs preamp in the bass, if they'd do it. My guess would be no, but I do think that'd work.

[Addison]

My understanding is the biggest issue isn't tooling for the pickup, it's that EB gets their preamp's circuit boards/control layout made to fit the bass, and in order to do both a 2 band pre and a preamp with a pickup blend for lefties would require them to have a batch of these preamps made specific, and it is cost prohibitive.

See, I thought that at first too...

But, from what i understand the ONLY difference between the H and the HH is that the HH has a 5-way selector switch instead of a 3-way.... the preamps themselves are identical.

There isn't a blend at all... check it out:



So yeah... this is why my panties are all in a bunch... it just doesn't make any sense.

[frankenjazz]

i asked the same question to a EB representative when i was working at guitar center years ago and his response was something to the effect of "I forgot we even make our basses lefty" which i took to mean you guys are just not important enough for us to worry about

[Addison]

Wow.

Um, yeah... if you need help adding to the misery, here's a direct quote from Sterling Ball:

We started not charging any additional for lefty but could not continue due to lack of demand. We pretty much offer them as a cost of being in the guitar business.

Gee, thanks for your charity!



Sorry, I'm grumpy today...

[bhunt1]

I saw your post on the EBMM forum and was skeptical of the some of the replies also. I have relatives who are CNC machinists and from what I know it would be more a matter of programming and setup than tooling if you already make a lefty version to add a different pickup config but Rodent would know best. To me this seems to be a matter of companies choosing their market niches. EBMM focuses their time and resources on developing new models (Big Al, Reflex,etc) rather than on the lefty market. If it's so difficult and costly to offer lefty versions in all configs, how do Carvin and G&L do it with no extra charges? If you want a 2 pickup MM style bass lefty, you could have Rodent build you one - the Nordstrand MM p'ups are supposed to be authentic MM style.

[Rodent]

as I understand it, it really is the preamp that's the root issue for EBMM

if you look at the righty image, understand that all of the pots are built into a printed circuit board and that circuit board is contoured to match the pot layout configuration. if you mirror the righty into a lefty, all of the CNC work can easily be morphed into a lefty - BUT (whoa! that's a pretty big butt!!) you then are stuck with one of two issues on the preamp:

- attempting to use it as is so that the contour follows the opposite side will result in the pots facing towards the back of the body. definitely not a usable option since nobody would want to have the controls on the rear face

- attempting to use it as is so that the pots face towards the front face will result in the controls following a curve opposite of the outer edge and having the volume near the butt. definitely not a usable option either


the only way to resolve this is to create a mirrored version of the preamp layout and utilize reverse taper integrated pots. this option is costly to engineer and manufacture in small quantities, and EBMM doesn't see enough return on investment to warrant the expense

if they utilized a more standard preamp configuration without integrated pots, I'm sure that you'd see EBMM offering a lefty option


make sense?

all the best,

R

[Addison]

Thanks Rod and yes! That makes sense.

However, I was under the impression that the HH and HS use the same preamp as the standard H... since EBMM already makes a lefty H, they would just be able to use that preamp with a different pickup selector, no?

At this point, I'm thinking that it MUST be a completely different preamp as you suggest... or else the change would be a no-brainer...

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this... it's not like Sterling is suddenly going to feel bad for me and have his top guys make a special one-off or something.

[AzWhoFan]

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this... it's not like Sterling is suddenly going to feel bad for me and have his top guys make a special one-off or something.

Why should Sterling care at all? He's busy making and selling BBQ's.

[andrew]

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this... it's not like Sterling is suddenly going to feel bad for me and have his top guys make a special one-off or something.

We wouldn't know anyone that lucky, would we?

[danomite64]

The original preamps don't have a curved circuit board, and sound much better than that crappy 3 band. I still don't understand why EB thought it was necessary to make that move....

[pjmuck]

Well I still don't buy it.

They already make lefty Stingrays...but no lefty Classic series.
They already make a 2 PUP lefty bass in the Bongo...but no HH models.

Bottom line: they're not interested. Perhaps they regret offering the Bongo left handed, since nobody wants to own one, be it a lefty or righty, but please don't use the excuse that we're not giving them enough interest to justify making lefty 2 PUP 'Rays. They get asked all the time, to which their blanketed response is: we don't get enough requests.

[andrew]

However, I was under the impression that the HH and HS use the same preamp as the standard H... since EBMM already makes a lefty H, they would just be able to use that preamp with a different pickup selector, no?

Interesting...

[andrew]

Well I still don't buy it.

They already make lefty Stingrays...but no lefty Classic series.
They already make a 2 PUP lefty bass in the Bongo...but no HH models.

I was told by a rep before that if I want the "2 pickup musicman sound" that's why they offer the Bongo left handed. Which seemed strange to me because much was made about the difference in tone the Bongo has compared to the Stingray or Sterling. I guess it's a big tonal difference in right handed people's hands but they all sound the same in lefty hands.