GAMMA Custom "BETA" (Jazz Style) Lefty Bass. New, MINT

[Frenchy-Lefty]

It's getting ugly in here...

[bigevilrobot]

Interestingly, the immediate name calling from another poster only reinforces the criticism from Permafrost.

After checking the detail pics on the facebook page, you CAN very clearly see the gap in the neck pocket and that the bridge is a bit crooked. The angles make it difficult to tell if the control plate has a large gap. The pick-guard around the neck pocket looks very weird and square as well.

Looks to me as if he's using necks from this seller on his right handed basses, http://stores.ebay.ca/Guitar-Parts-Zone ... 7675.l2563
So the assertion that he's slapping together instruments from cheap Chinese parts probably isn't far off the mark, he's using overpriced cheap Chinese parts.

I do think there's a level of misrepresentation going on here, especially in light of the name calling.

[bbl]

Apparently that bass ain't the only thing with issues.*

*if permafrost's comments are true

[permafrost]

I'm not trying to prove I'm right nor hurt people's feelings. But when I know that fellow lefty bassists can get hurt if I don't publicly disclose what I know about this seller, I believe it's my duty to do just so. As our friend Bigevilrobot noted, some of the defects are visible in the very pictures that the seller himself uploaded to his Facebook page.

Thanks for the heads up, Austinleftybassist. I always wanted an orange bass, like Eastwood makes for righties only, the one called Classic 4. This Jazz Bass wasn't exactly that, but us lefties can't be too choosy and I trusted the guy's feedback here and on his Facebook page...

Besides the name calling; the seller's champion is lying when he suggests that the Paypal claim I filed was reversed. It was not and I got my money back. But I had to pay for shipping because seller refused to do so, even though he had knowingly sold me a defective instrument. Seller actually refused to accept delivery of the bass when the postman presented it to him. I had to call Paypal to alert them to his refusal to take it back. They promptly refunded my money after consulting the status of the package on the USPS website.

I believe eBay removed the negative feedback I had left for him because, if I recall correctly, I told him once that I would leave "appropriate feedback" if he didn't reimburse my shipping expenses. I believe he argued that my demand constituted "feedback extortion" according to eBay policy.

In any case, I got the refund and I stand by my statements about the quality of his product. I'm sorry to say, what the seller did represents a form of fraud.

P.S. NONE of the defects were visible in the pictures he had uploaded to the eBay auction listing. So I was not aware of the issues when I bid for the bass and won.

[belinmad]

I asked Joe a while back about the source of the parts, and this is what he had to say:

none of the stuff is Mighty Mite... I never cared too much for MM stuff )except for their Fretless Neck...._ , although MM is definitely NOT bad - just that I like my GAMMA stuff better. The parts / components (on this one and most of my GAMMAs) for the most part, are MIJ and/or MIA. Like my GAMMAs, not factory built or mass assembly line construction. If you read some of the reviews or see feedback, the commentary is generally consistent - folks are pleased.

After consulting with another board member, we agreed that at the price point it seemed very unlikely that parts were MIA/MIJ, but who knows...

[permafrost]

Re price point of these basses. This is what Joe told me: "....oh, and one small request - PLEASE dont tell anyone what you paid for it...then everyone will expect me to make a bass for them for half price;-)..." and "...i guess Lefty basses dont command a premium like i thought... normally i sell these for $550 and above... but so be it.....those are the breaks..."

Can anyone attest to the fact that they paid $550.00 for one of this person's basses?

Now, in another indication that Joe doesn't know exactly what goes into his basses: "...the parts are from my direct sources in southern cal and woodstock ny...radius is 9.5" i believe..."

How can he not know what the radius of his necks are if he's so careful and picky about the parts that he uses in his builds?

[belinmad]

Quick search brings these guys up in Woodstock, NY:
http://guitarpartszone.com/

[screambasses]

So, I feel like putting my two cents in... as you may know I began a lefty-only bass building company in 2010. Like Joe, I also used parts out of parts bins, but here's the difference. I know, as a lefty, that we don't have much of a selection in the mid-high price range, which is where I placed my Scream Basses product, so, my price range would top out at $1,500. My bodies and wood necks were made per specific order by USACG or Guitar Mill (for my Stingray bass). My graphite necks were custom built by Moses and had cocobolo inserts. (My initial Moses order alone was well into the thousands of dollars.) My electronics were Audere preamps. My hardware was mostly Hipshot or Schaller. My PUPs were Lace, Nordstrand, or other quality pickups. I offered any color you wanted. My french finishes were flawless. The COST alone for my basses were sometimes over a grand in parts. I charged $300 over whatever my cost was for labor but I was LUCKY to sell my basses for $400 - $600 (1/3 to 1/2 of the cost of materials alone). I had to close shop because I couldn't keep up that pace, and something that still burns my ass today is that I wasn't able to utilize this website to sell my basses. In fact, I will buy back any Scream Bass for the price I sold it for just because I know how well they're built.

That being said, do we really need another "builder" giving us sub-par lefty instruments using shitty parts? The answer is no. But, do we need another builder with $2,000 entry prices? Again, the answer is no IMO. We need good, solid mid-price-range instruments, made in America and in a color other than black or burst.

I step down off of the soap box.

pete

You didn't want it, obviously the flaws you listed here did not require taking everything apart on a bass you didn't want in the first place, take the neck off to see if it was a mity-mite or whatever dude, yank the pickups out of it to see if they were Chinese or whatever AND you did NOT pay an exorbitant amount of money for it either. You paid like 250bucks, and are whining like you got ripped off for a bass that costs you 3grand. INSTEAD, you decided on yourself to totally take it apart, THEN haphazardly put it back together and send it back and tell the world all the flaws were HIS fault? You know anything that is "built" is custom dumbass even if it is using shelved parts.

And another member here has it now, and is perfectly happy with it.

[danomite64]

I have to admit, I'm surprised to see this thread has any replies. I saw the initial post, looked at the picture of the bass, saw the price, and immediately forgot about it. I just didn't believe it could match the quality of a MIM Fender, which I could get for roughly the same price. I figured the rest of you saw it the same way, and just ignored the thread......heh, guess I was wrong.


FWIW, I got to play a few of Pete's basses, and they were quite nice. I wanted one of them, but unfortunately I was unemployed at the time, so I couldn't buy it.

[bigevilrobot]

You know though...


still looks nicer than a Wish bass

[andrew]

Guys, let's let Joe chime in on this thread before we bring out the pitch forks. I'm not saying permafrost is wrong, but there's two sides to every story so let's let the parties directly involved both say their piece before we damn one side or the other.

[andrew]

something that still burns my ass today is that I wasn't able to utilize this website to sell my basses.

Do you mean no one here bought basses from you that you posted for sale on the board or that you only discovered this place after it was too late?

[permafrost]

We need good, solid mid-price-range instruments, made in America and in a color other than black or burst.

Carvin bolt-on basses come closest to fitting the bill IMO. I wish they'd make P and MM style basses, though.

For my part, I love vintage Made in Japan basses the best.

[velalv]

Don't forget G&L basses too as good, American made basses with colors other then white. Their precision clone was less then a Fender American Standard. If I was not so confused with my identity as a bassist these days I would have gotten one in a heartbeat.

We need good, solid mid-price-range instruments, made in America and in a color other than black or burst.

Carvin bolt-on basses come closest to fitting the bill IMO. I wish they'd make P and MM style basses, though.

For my part, I love vintage Made in Japan basses the best.

[andrew]

I'm going to lock this thread. I feel like everyone's said their piece and Joe has messaged me saying he doesn't want to create further conflict by posting counter to permafrost, which I respect his decision.

[permafrost]

If you haven't yet, please be aware that:

These things sold for LESS than $200 NEW on eBay. Below are the links to two completed listings on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAMMA-Custom...item232a5c1b1f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAMMA-Custom...item232a2050a1

These things have some kind of plastic as fretboard material instead of even the cheapest wood -- just like the cheapest Chinese basses that sell for $80 or less on eBay.

However, unlike said Chinese basses which are put together in normal fashion; the gamma bass that I bought and immediately returned (after having to file a Paypal claim and contact Paypal customer service because Joe Milstein refused to take delivery of the bass when it was presented to him by the delivery company) had 1)a bridge that was mounted crooked which Joe Milstein hid by loosening the bridge mounting screws so that the tension of the strings would pull the bridge straight; 2)a neck pocket that was way too large for the neck (JM hid a 1/8" gap between neck and body by adding a black piece of plastic to the white pickguard); 3)a misaligned neck; 4)a sticker for a logo which was not even under the clearcoat! 5)buzzy low-output cheap pups which JM said were his custom pups; and 6)a headstock which was not even completely painted!

[permafrost]

The website TALKBASS just banned me for posting the above. The reason TALKBASS gave for their decision? That I'm a TROLL.

That lets you know the kind of people TALKBASS administrators are and the kind of people they do "business" with.

Be advised.

[penguin]

Wasn't there a rather contentious thread on one of the forums about GAMMA basses just a few weeks ago?? I am unable to locate it, so maybe its been deleted??

[permafrost]

Yes, you're right about that.

LEFTYBASSIST administrator asked Joe Milstein to rebut my claims. Joe Milstein NEVER responded to any of the issues I raised. The adminstrator of LEFTYBASSIST first locked the thread then deleted it. If he does the same again, it will unfortunately raise doubts about his own credibility as well.

As you can all see, I'm not doing anything wrong here. Only alerting fellow bass players to the existence of a person who is selling misrepresented subpar products.

[Sec-Def]

woh woh woh, let's not jump into conclusions that thread is still here, in the locked threads department aka SOLD :
http://www.leftybassist.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4516